Wired Intelligent Edge

Hey everyone,
This is just me griping in the hope it will be passed on to product managers.

On the Wired/Wireless network side we are currently an all Aruba/HP shop which makes management easier but as we start moving in a direction of wanting to provide users 10G access I find the Aruba product offerings extremely lacking which is a pity for Aruba I guess because it makes me look elsewhere.
And once the system becomes hybrid with a hybrid management solution I doubt we would ever go back to being a mono-culture.

What makes me say the 10G base-T offerings are lack luster?

- No 48 port 10G base T products aimed at access at all (8320 and 8360 don't support 802.1X and are aimed at the datacenter)
- Even on the 6400M though 48p 10G modules exist they are not copper (base T), for copper only 24p is available.
- The smart rate or 1G+ 48p switches tend to be deeper then industry standard making drop in replacement very hard/impossible.

Well that was my rant, I doubt that stuff will change before we make our purchasing decisions for 2021 but maybe it'll help others.
As for me either we'll go with smart rate and be capped at "just" 5G or maybe we will take a leap of faith and order other equipment.

------------------------------
Keeper of the Keys
------------------------------

Hi ER14,

The Aruba 6000 series Campus switches support 802.1x radius.
The Aruba 8000 series  Datacenter switches don't support 802.1x radius.

As 802.1x radius is generally not used in the datacenter. If you feel there is a use case for using radius on a 8000 series Datacenter switch please report this on the innovation website: https://innovate.arubanetworks.com/

But why do you want 10Gb Base-T endpoint connectivity, personally I have never seen a use case for this. Are you have client applications that requires a 10Gbps connection? In addition to the fact that 10Gbase-T is very expensive for endpoint connectivity, you will also have to take into account a correct over subscription with regard to your uplink interfaces, core infrastructure, firewalls, servers and WLAN uplinks. I think a 10Gbps endpoint connectivity is a very rare design at the moment, hence my question what your use case is.

If you really need it you can also look for a HPE 5710 48XGT 6QS+/2QS28 Switch (JL586A) switch.

------------------------------
Marcel Koedijk | MVP Expert 2020 | ACMP | ACCP | Ekahau ECSE
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 06, 2020 03:20 PM
From: E.S. Rosenberg
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Hey everyone,
This is just me griping in the hope it will be passed on to product managers.

On the Wired/Wireless network side we are currently an all Aruba/HP shop which makes management easier but as we start moving in a direction of wanting to provide users 10G access I find the Aruba product offerings extremely lacking which is a pity for Aruba I guess because it makes me look elsewhere.
And once the system becomes hybrid with a hybrid management solution I doubt we would ever go back to being a mono-culture.

What makes me say the 10G base-T offerings are lack luster?

- No 48 port 10G base T products aimed at access at all (8320 and 8360 don't support 802.1X and are aimed at the datacenter)
- Even on the 6400M though 48p 10G modules exist they are not copper (base T), for copper only 24p is available.
- The smart rate or 1G+ 48p switches tend to be deeper then industry standard making drop in replacement very hard/impossible.

Well that was my rant, I doubt that stuff will change before we make our purchasing decisions for 2021 but maybe it'll help others.
As for me either we'll go with smart rate and be capped at "just" 5G or maybe we will take a leap of faith and order other equipment.

------------------------------
Keeper of the Keys
------------------------------

Hi Marcel,

In our company we have creative teams that work with high definition video material these files are *large* and allowing their laptops/workstations to be connected over 10G baseT means a serious improvement for their experience when they need to upload/download from our fileservers (they probably would not be opposed to even higher speeds if we could offer them).

The usage of 10G endpoint is growing and will grow more as endpoint costs come down definitively for creative teams as they start working with 4K raw video material or even high definition photo-shoot raw material. In addition to that I believe our researchers would also love to have high speed internal connections for when they are playing with datasets.

We have looked at using an 8320 to provide 10G access to our creative team however the lack of 802.1X was a total deal breaker (in addition to the fact that they are way too noisy to be outside of a server room).

The HPE switch looks interesting though again it is way larger (12cm deeper) then "normal" switches meaning you can't just drop it into an existing distribution cabinet to upgrade connectivity, also what is the deal with that switch existing at all? I though that after the purchase of Aruba HPE Networking and Aruba were one and the same thing.

I'll definitely check out the innovate site!

//OT - What happened to my username why was it changed to ER94??

Thanks!

------------------------------
Keeper of the Keys
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 10, 2020 05:04 AM
From: marcel koedijk
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Hi ER14,

The Aruba 6000 series Campus switches support 802.1x radius.
The Aruba 8000 series  Datacenter switches don't support 802.1x radius.

As 802.1x radius is generally not used in the datacenter. If you feel there is a use case for using radius on a 8000 series Datacenter switch please report this on the innovation website: https://innovate.arubanetworks.com/

But why do you want 10Gb Base-T endpoint connectivity, personally I have never seen a use case for this. Are you have client applications that requires a 10Gbps connection? In addition to the fact that 10Gbase-T is very expensive for endpoint connectivity, you will also have to take into account a correct over subscription with regard to your uplink interfaces, core infrastructure, firewalls, servers and WLAN uplinks. I think a 10Gbps endpoint connectivity is a very rare design at the moment, hence my question what your use case is.

If you really need it you can also look for a HPE 5710 48XGT 6QS+/2QS28 Switch (JL586A) switch.

------------------------------
Marcel Koedijk | MVP Expert 2020 | ACMP | ACCP | Ekahau ECSE

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 06, 2020 03:20 PM
From: E.S. Rosenberg
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Hey everyone,
This is just me griping in the hope it will be passed on to product managers.

On the Wired/Wireless network side we are currently an all Aruba/HP shop which makes management easier but as we start moving in a direction of wanting to provide users 10G access I find the Aruba product offerings extremely lacking which is a pity for Aruba I guess because it makes me look elsewhere.
And once the system becomes hybrid with a hybrid management solution I doubt we would ever go back to being a mono-culture.

What makes me say the 10G base-T offerings are lack luster?

- No 48 port 10G base T products aimed at access at all (8320 and 8360 don't support 802.1X and are aimed at the datacenter)
- Even on the 6400M though 48p 10G modules exist they are not copper (base T), for copper only 24p is available.
- The smart rate or 1G+ 48p switches tend to be deeper then industry standard making drop in replacement very hard/impossible.

Well that was my rant, I doubt that stuff will change before we make our purchasing decisions for 2021 but maybe it'll help others.
As for me either we'll go with smart rate and be capped at "just" 5G or maybe we will take a leap of faith and order other equipment.

------------------------------
Keeper of the Keys
------------------------------

I'm sorry to say...but a HPE FlexFabric 5710 Switch Series (aren't we on the same boat?) would fit the bill perfectly IMHO (OK, it's not AOS-CX OS based...it's Comware 7 OS based...which is absolutely not bad at all...and - as example on JL586A SKU - you have your required 40x1/10Gbps Base-T ports + 8x10Gbps Base-T ports + as uplinks 6x40Gbps ports (or 3x40Gbps and 1x100Gbps port or 2x100Gbps ports...all backed with 802.1X support...noisy as usual...but resilient...for DC room).

I mean: you can create an high-speed-island for your desktop workstations using what it fits better (Comware - AOS-CX interoperability is OK).

------------------------------
Davide Poletto
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 10, 2020 05:37 AM
From: E.S. Rosenberg
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Hi Marcel,

In our company we have creative teams that work with high definition video material these files are *large* and allowing their laptops/workstations to be connected over 10G baseT means a serious improvement for their experience when they need to upload/download from our fileservers (they probably would not be opposed to even higher speeds if we could offer them).

The usage of 10G endpoint is growing and will grow more as endpoint costs come down definitively for creative teams as they start working with 4K raw video material or even high definition photo-shoot raw material. In addition to that I believe our researchers would also love to have high speed internal connections for when they are playing with datasets.

We have looked at using an 8320 to provide 10G access to our creative team however the lack of 802.1X was a total deal breaker (in addition to the fact that they are way too noisy to be outside of a server room).

The HPE switch looks interesting though again it is way larger (12cm deeper) then "normal" switches meaning you can't just drop it into an existing distribution cabinet to upgrade connectivity, also what is the deal with that switch existing at all? I though that after the purchase of Aruba HPE Networking and Aruba were one and the same thing.

I'll definitely check out the innovate site!

//OT - What happened to my username why was it changed to ER94??

Thanks!

------------------------------
Keeper of the Keys

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 10, 2020 05:04 AM
From: marcel koedijk
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Hi ER14,

The Aruba 6000 series Campus switches support 802.1x radius.
The Aruba 8000 series  Datacenter switches don't support 802.1x radius.

As 802.1x radius is generally not used in the datacenter. If you feel there is a use case for using radius on a 8000 series Datacenter switch please report this on the innovation website: https://innovate.arubanetworks.com/

But why do you want 10Gb Base-T endpoint connectivity, personally I have never seen a use case for this. Are you have client applications that requires a 10Gbps connection? In addition to the fact that 10Gbase-T is very expensive for endpoint connectivity, you will also have to take into account a correct over subscription with regard to your uplink interfaces, core infrastructure, firewalls, servers and WLAN uplinks. I think a 10Gbps endpoint connectivity is a very rare design at the moment, hence my question what your use case is.

If you really need it you can also look for a HPE 5710 48XGT 6QS+/2QS28 Switch (JL586A) switch.

------------------------------
Marcel Koedijk | MVP Expert 2020 | ACMP | ACCP | Ekahau ECSE

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 06, 2020 03:20 PM
From: E.S. Rosenberg
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Hey everyone,
This is just me griping in the hope it will be passed on to product managers.

On the Wired/Wireless network side we are currently an all Aruba/HP shop which makes management easier but as we start moving in a direction of wanting to provide users 10G access I find the Aruba product offerings extremely lacking which is a pity for Aruba I guess because it makes me look elsewhere.
And once the system becomes hybrid with a hybrid management solution I doubt we would ever go back to being a mono-culture.

What makes me say the 10G base-T offerings are lack luster?

- No 48 port 10G base T products aimed at access at all (8320 and 8360 don't support 802.1X and are aimed at the datacenter)
- Even on the 6400M though 48p 10G modules exist they are not copper (base T), for copper only 24p is available.
- The smart rate or 1G+ 48p switches tend to be deeper then industry standard making drop in replacement very hard/impossible.

Well that was my rant, I doubt that stuff will change before we make our purchasing decisions for 2021 but maybe it'll help others.
As for me either we'll go with smart rate and be capped at "just" 5G or maybe we will take a leap of faith and order other equipment.

------------------------------
Keeper of the Keys
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12/10/2020 5:46:00 AM
From: parnassus
Subject: RE: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

I'm sorry to say...but a HPE FlexFabric 5710 Switch Series (aren't we on the same boat?) would fit the bill perfectly IMHO (OK, it's not AOS-CX OS based...it's Comware 7 OS based...which is absolutely not bad at all...and - as example on JL586A SKU - you have your required 40x1/10Gbps Base-T ports + 8x10Gbps Base-T ports + as uplinks 6x40Gbps ports (or 3x40Gbps and 1x100Gbps port or 2x100Gbps ports...all backed with 802.1X support...noisy as usual...but resilient...for DC room).

I mean: you can create an high-speed-island for your desktop workstations using what it fits better (Comware - AOS-CX interoperability is OK).

------------------------------
Davide Poletto
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 10, 2020 05:37 AM
From: E.S. Rosenberg
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Hi Marcel,

In our company we have creative teams that work with high definition video material these files are *large* and allowing their laptops/workstations to be connected over 10G baseT means a serious improvement for their experience when they need to upload/download from our fileservers (they probably would not be opposed to even higher speeds if we could offer them).

The usage of 10G endpoint is growing and will grow more as endpoint costs come down definitively for creative teams as they start working with 4K raw video material or even high definition photo-shoot raw material. In addition to that I believe our researchers would also love to have high speed internal connections for when they are playing with datasets.

We have looked at using an 8320 to provide 10G access to our creative team however the lack of 802.1X was a total deal breaker (in addition to the fact that they are way too noisy to be outside of a server room).

The HPE switch looks interesting though again it is way larger (12cm deeper) then "normal" switches meaning you can't just drop it into an existing distribution cabinet to upgrade connectivity, also what is the deal with that switch existing at all? I though that after the purchase of Aruba HPE Networking and Aruba were one and the same thing.

I'll definitely check out the innovate site!

//OT - What happened to my username why was it changed to ER94??

Thanks!

------------------------------
Keeper of the Keys

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 10, 2020 05:04 AM
From: marcel koedijk
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Hi ER14,

The Aruba 6000 series Campus switches support 802.1x radius.
The Aruba 8000 series  Datacenter switches don't support 802.1x radius.

As 802.1x radius is generally not used in the datacenter. If you feel there is a use case for using radius on a 8000 series Datacenter switch please report this on the innovation website: https://innovate.arubanetworks.com/

But why do you want 10Gb Base-T endpoint connectivity, personally I have never seen a use case for this. Are you have client applications that requires a 10Gbps connection? In addition to the fact that 10Gbase-T is very expensive for endpoint connectivity, you will also have to take into account a correct over subscription with regard to your uplink interfaces, core infrastructure, firewalls, servers and WLAN uplinks. I think a 10Gbps endpoint connectivity is a very rare design at the moment, hence my question what your use case is.

If you really need it you can also look for a HPE 5710 48XGT 6QS+/2QS28 Switch (JL586A) switch.

------------------------------
Marcel Koedijk | MVP Expert 2020 | ACMP | ACCP | Ekahau ECSE

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 06, 2020 03:20 PM
From: E.S. Rosenberg
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Hey everyone,
This is just me griping in the hope it will be passed on to product managers.

On the Wired/Wireless network side we are currently an all Aruba/HP shop which makes management easier but as we start moving in a direction of wanting to provide users 10G access I find the Aruba product offerings extremely lacking which is a pity for Aruba I guess because it makes me look elsewhere.
And once the system becomes hybrid with a hybrid management solution I doubt we would ever go back to being a mono-culture.

What makes me say the 10G base-T offerings are lack luster?

- No 48 port 10G base T products aimed at access at all (8320 and 8360 don't support 802.1X and are aimed at the datacenter)
- Even on the 6400M though 48p 10G modules exist they are not copper (base T), for copper only 24p is available.
- The smart rate or 1G+ 48p switches tend to be deeper then industry standard making drop in replacement very hard/impossible.

Well that was my rant, I doubt that stuff will change before we make our purchasing decisions for 2021 but maybe it'll help others.
As for me either we'll go with smart rate and be capped at "just" 5G or maybe we will take a leap of faith and order other equipment.

------------------------------
Keeper of the Keys
------------------------------

Yep, another less-DC-oriented alternative (more for Small Offices I would say) would be the cheaper HPE OfficeConnect 1950 (Comware 7 OS based with some features stripped down...IRF is stil present): specifically there is the SKU JH295A which is capable of 12x10G Base-T ports + 4xSFP+ ports...not so much but enough for serving a small working group (eventually two identical models can be deployed by using IRF to double the port density or to benefit from resilient LACP links aggregations <- not the case here). It supports 802.1X.

In any case the uplink's throughput to Core infrastructure (where Fileservers are) plays an important role and it is something one should carefully consider when design a similar island (as you wrote: oversubscription is de-facto imposed on this type of device...but one can live with it if it's an understood concept and an accepted "restriction").

------------------------------
Davide Poletto
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 10, 2020 06:12 AM
From: marcel koedijk
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Fully agree Davide. The 5710 should be an excellent choice for this case and indeed create a "high-speed-island" close to the fileservers is the best. The depth of cabling cabinet is often an issue and will usually lead to the installation of a deeper cabinet. Not fun, but generally higher switching speeds require more power and produce more heat, noise and require some more space to cool properly.

Original Message:
Sent: 12/10/2020 5:46:00 AM
From: parnassus
Subject: RE: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

I'm sorry to say...but a HPE FlexFabric 5710 Switch Series (aren't we on the same boat?) would fit the bill perfectly IMHO (OK, it's not AOS-CX OS based...it's Comware 7 OS based...which is absolutely not bad at all...and - as example on JL586A SKU - you have your required 40x1/10Gbps Base-T ports + 8x10Gbps Base-T ports + as uplinks 6x40Gbps ports (or 3x40Gbps and 1x100Gbps port or 2x100Gbps ports...all backed with 802.1X support...noisy as usual...but resilient...for DC room).

I mean: you can create an high-speed-island for your desktop workstations using what it fits better (Comware - AOS-CX interoperability is OK).

------------------------------
Davide Poletto

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 10, 2020 05:37 AM
From: E.S. Rosenberg
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Hi Marcel,

In our company we have creative teams that work with high definition video material these files are *large* and allowing their laptops/workstations to be connected over 10G baseT means a serious improvement for their experience when they need to upload/download from our fileservers (they probably would not be opposed to even higher speeds if we could offer them).

The usage of 10G endpoint is growing and will grow more as endpoint costs come down definitively for creative teams as they start working with 4K raw video material or even high definition photo-shoot raw material. In addition to that I believe our researchers would also love to have high speed internal connections for when they are playing with datasets.

We have looked at using an 8320 to provide 10G access to our creative team however the lack of 802.1X was a total deal breaker (in addition to the fact that they are way too noisy to be outside of a server room).

The HPE switch looks interesting though again it is way larger (12cm deeper) then "normal" switches meaning you can't just drop it into an existing distribution cabinet to upgrade connectivity, also what is the deal with that switch existing at all? I though that after the purchase of Aruba HPE Networking and Aruba were one and the same thing.

I'll definitely check out the innovate site!

//OT - What happened to my username why was it changed to ER94??

Thanks!

------------------------------
Keeper of the Keys

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 10, 2020 05:04 AM
From: marcel koedijk
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Hi ER14,

The Aruba 6000 series Campus switches support 802.1x radius.
The Aruba 8000 series  Datacenter switches don't support 802.1x radius.

As 802.1x radius is generally not used in the datacenter. If you feel there is a use case for using radius on a 8000 series Datacenter switch please report this on the innovation website: https://innovate.arubanetworks.com/

But why do you want 10Gb Base-T endpoint connectivity, personally I have never seen a use case for this. Are you have client applications that requires a 10Gbps connection? In addition to the fact that 10Gbase-T is very expensive for endpoint connectivity, you will also have to take into account a correct over subscription with regard to your uplink interfaces, core infrastructure, firewalls, servers and WLAN uplinks. I think a 10Gbps endpoint connectivity is a very rare design at the moment, hence my question what your use case is.

If you really need it you can also look for a HPE 5710 48XGT 6QS+/2QS28 Switch (JL586A) switch.

------------------------------
Marcel Koedijk | MVP Expert 2020 | ACMP | ACCP | Ekahau ECSE

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 06, 2020 03:20 PM
From: E.S. Rosenberg
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Hey everyone,
This is just me griping in the hope it will be passed on to product managers.

On the Wired/Wireless network side we are currently an all Aruba/HP shop which makes management easier but as we start moving in a direction of wanting to provide users 10G access I find the Aruba product offerings extremely lacking which is a pity for Aruba I guess because it makes me look elsewhere.
And once the system becomes hybrid with a hybrid management solution I doubt we would ever go back to being a mono-culture.

What makes me say the 10G base-T offerings are lack luster?

- No 48 port 10G base T products aimed at access at all (8320 and 8360 don't support 802.1X and are aimed at the datacenter)
- Even on the 6400M though 48p 10G modules exist they are not copper (base T), for copper only 24p is available.
- The smart rate or 1G+ 48p switches tend to be deeper then industry standard making drop in replacement very hard/impossible.

Well that was my rant, I doubt that stuff will change before we make our purchasing decisions for 2021 but maybe it'll help others.
As for me either we'll go with smart rate and be capped at "just" 5G or maybe we will take a leap of faith and order other equipment.

------------------------------
Keeper of the Keys
------------------------------

Thanks for all the interesting suggestions.

My point/problem is that once I'm looking at something like the OfficeConnect 1950 or the 5710 I might as well also start looking at other manufacturers because I'm anyhow losing the advantage of "staying in the ecosystem".

At this point I think we'll settle for offering 5GbaseT to our high speed users (and maybe 10GbaseT to those that are wired directly to the location of the backbone)

------------------------------
Keeper of the Keys
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 10, 2020 08:41 AM
From: Davide Poletto
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Yep, another less-DC-oriented alternative (more for Small Offices I would say) would be the cheaper HPE OfficeConnect 1950 (Comware 7 OS based with some features stripped down...IRF is stil present): specifically there is the SKU JH295A which is capable of 12x10G Base-T ports + 4xSFP+ ports...not so much but enough for serving a small working group (eventually two identical models can be deployed by using IRF to double the port density or to benefit from resilient LACP links aggregations <- not the case here). It supports 802.1X.

In any case the uplink's throughput to Core infrastructure (where Fileservers are) plays an important role and it is something one should carefully consider when design a similar island (as you wrote: oversubscription is de-facto imposed on this type of device...but one can live with it if it's an understood concept and an accepted "restriction").

------------------------------
Davide Poletto

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 10, 2020 06:12 AM
From: marcel koedijk
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Fully agree Davide. The 5710 should be an excellent choice for this case and indeed create a "high-speed-island" close to the fileservers is the best. The depth of cabling cabinet is often an issue and will usually lead to the installation of a deeper cabinet. Not fun, but generally higher switching speeds require more power and produce more heat, noise and require some more space to cool properly.

Original Message:
Sent: 12/10/2020 5:46:00 AM
From: parnassus
Subject: RE: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

I'm sorry to say...but a HPE FlexFabric 5710 Switch Series (aren't we on the same boat?) would fit the bill perfectly IMHO (OK, it's not AOS-CX OS based...it's Comware 7 OS based...which is absolutely not bad at all...and - as example on JL586A SKU - you have your required 40x1/10Gbps Base-T ports + 8x10Gbps Base-T ports + as uplinks 6x40Gbps ports (or 3x40Gbps and 1x100Gbps port or 2x100Gbps ports...all backed with 802.1X support...noisy as usual...but resilient...for DC room).

I mean: you can create an high-speed-island for your desktop workstations using what it fits better (Comware - AOS-CX interoperability is OK).

------------------------------
Davide Poletto

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 10, 2020 05:37 AM
From: E.S. Rosenberg
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Hi Marcel,

In our company we have creative teams that work with high definition video material these files are *large* and allowing their laptops/workstations to be connected over 10G baseT means a serious improvement for their experience when they need to upload/download from our fileservers (they probably would not be opposed to even higher speeds if we could offer them).

The usage of 10G endpoint is growing and will grow more as endpoint costs come down definitively for creative teams as they start working with 4K raw video material or even high definition photo-shoot raw material. In addition to that I believe our researchers would also love to have high speed internal connections for when they are playing with datasets.

We have looked at using an 8320 to provide 10G access to our creative team however the lack of 802.1X was a total deal breaker (in addition to the fact that they are way too noisy to be outside of a server room).

The HPE switch looks interesting though again it is way larger (12cm deeper) then "normal" switches meaning you can't just drop it into an existing distribution cabinet to upgrade connectivity, also what is the deal with that switch existing at all? I though that after the purchase of Aruba HPE Networking and Aruba were one and the same thing.

I'll definitely check out the innovate site!

//OT - What happened to my username why was it changed to ER94??

Thanks!

------------------------------
Keeper of the Keys

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 10, 2020 05:04 AM
From: marcel koedijk
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Hi ER14,

The Aruba 6000 series Campus switches support 802.1x radius.
The Aruba 8000 series  Datacenter switches don't support 802.1x radius.

As 802.1x radius is generally not used in the datacenter. If you feel there is a use case for using radius on a 8000 series Datacenter switch please report this on the innovation website: https://innovate.arubanetworks.com/

But why do you want 10Gb Base-T endpoint connectivity, personally I have never seen a use case for this. Are you have client applications that requires a 10Gbps connection? In addition to the fact that 10Gbase-T is very expensive for endpoint connectivity, you will also have to take into account a correct over subscription with regard to your uplink interfaces, core infrastructure, firewalls, servers and WLAN uplinks. I think a 10Gbps endpoint connectivity is a very rare design at the moment, hence my question what your use case is.

If you really need it you can also look for a HPE 5710 48XGT 6QS+/2QS28 Switch (JL586A) switch.

------------------------------
Marcel Koedijk | MVP Expert 2020 | ACMP | ACCP | Ekahau ECSE

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 06, 2020 03:20 PM
From: E.S. Rosenberg
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Hey everyone,
This is just me griping in the hope it will be passed on to product managers.

On the Wired/Wireless network side we are currently an all Aruba/HP shop which makes management easier but as we start moving in a direction of wanting to provide users 10G access I find the Aruba product offerings extremely lacking which is a pity for Aruba I guess because it makes me look elsewhere.
And once the system becomes hybrid with a hybrid management solution I doubt we would ever go back to being a mono-culture.

What makes me say the 10G base-T offerings are lack luster?

- No 48 port 10G base T products aimed at access at all (8320 and 8360 don't support 802.1X and are aimed at the datacenter)
- Even on the 6400M though 48p 10G modules exist they are not copper (base T), for copper only 24p is available.
- The smart rate or 1G+ 48p switches tend to be deeper then industry standard making drop in replacement very hard/impossible.

Well that was my rant, I doubt that stuff will change before we make our purchasing decisions for 2021 but maybe it'll help others.
As for me either we'll go with smart rate and be capped at "just" 5G or maybe we will take a leap of faith and order other equipment.

------------------------------
Keeper of the Keys
------------------------------

Hi! good point.

Slightly OT...but when you wrote:

My point/problem is that once I'm looking at something like the OfficeConnect 1950 or the 5710 I might as well also start looking at other manufacturers because I'm anyhow losing the advantage of "staying in the ecosystem"

How much and what will you lose exactly in having an access zone served with non ArubaOS-CX based switches?

I'm really curious...I suspect you were referring to all those "surrounding" applications/tools that are valid for an access-to-core ArubaOS-CX based ecosystem and that justify the fact that staying in the ecosystem is advantageous (I guess tools such as Aruba NetEdit or applications like Aruba Airwave and/or Aruba ClearPass, etc.)...but I really want to know what you're referring to because I think this is quite important point in days when the "from edge to core" mantra is hammering (I mean: the "ecosystem" is an important concept if the surrounding applications/tools/devices are really capable of interacting with it completely and without strange and convoluted restrictions...sort of a "one tool to rule them all" for each service type...otherwise its importance could fade quite rapidly if the ecosystem forces us to use different tools to administer/interface with it).

------------------------------
Davide Poletto
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 15, 2020 03:40 PM
From: E.S. Rosenberg
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Thanks for all the interesting suggestions.

My point/problem is that once I'm looking at something like the OfficeConnect 1950 or the 5710 I might as well also start looking at other manufacturers because I'm anyhow losing the advantage of "staying in the ecosystem".

At this point I think we'll settle for offering 5GbaseT to our high speed users (and maybe 10GbaseT to those that are wired directly to the location of the backbone)

------------------------------
Keeper of the Keys

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 10, 2020 08:41 AM
From: Davide Poletto
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Yep, another less-DC-oriented alternative (more for Small Offices I would say) would be the cheaper HPE OfficeConnect 1950 (Comware 7 OS based with some features stripped down...IRF is stil present): specifically there is the SKU JH295A which is capable of 12x10G Base-T ports + 4xSFP+ ports...not so much but enough for serving a small working group (eventually two identical models can be deployed by using IRF to double the port density or to benefit from resilient LACP links aggregations <- not the case here). It supports 802.1X.

In any case the uplink's throughput to Core infrastructure (where Fileservers are) plays an important role and it is something one should carefully consider when design a similar island (as you wrote: oversubscription is de-facto imposed on this type of device...but one can live with it if it's an understood concept and an accepted "restriction").

------------------------------
Davide Poletto

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 10, 2020 06:12 AM
From: marcel koedijk
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Fully agree Davide. The 5710 should be an excellent choice for this case and indeed create a "high-speed-island" close to the fileservers is the best. The depth of cabling cabinet is often an issue and will usually lead to the installation of a deeper cabinet. Not fun, but generally higher switching speeds require more power and produce more heat, noise and require some more space to cool properly.

Original Message:
Sent: 12/10/2020 5:46:00 AM
From: parnassus
Subject: RE: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

I'm sorry to say...but a HPE FlexFabric 5710 Switch Series (aren't we on the same boat?) would fit the bill perfectly IMHO (OK, it's not AOS-CX OS based...it's Comware 7 OS based...which is absolutely not bad at all...and - as example on JL586A SKU - you have your required 40x1/10Gbps Base-T ports + 8x10Gbps Base-T ports + as uplinks 6x40Gbps ports (or 3x40Gbps and 1x100Gbps port or 2x100Gbps ports...all backed with 802.1X support...noisy as usual...but resilient...for DC room).

I mean: you can create an high-speed-island for your desktop workstations using what it fits better (Comware - AOS-CX interoperability is OK).

------------------------------
Davide Poletto

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 10, 2020 05:37 AM
From: E.S. Rosenberg
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Hi Marcel,

In our company we have creative teams that work with high definition video material these files are *large* and allowing their laptops/workstations to be connected over 10G baseT means a serious improvement for their experience when they need to upload/download from our fileservers (they probably would not be opposed to even higher speeds if we could offer them).

The usage of 10G endpoint is growing and will grow more as endpoint costs come down definitively for creative teams as they start working with 4K raw video material or even high definition photo-shoot raw material. In addition to that I believe our researchers would also love to have high speed internal connections for when they are playing with datasets.

We have looked at using an 8320 to provide 10G access to our creative team however the lack of 802.1X was a total deal breaker (in addition to the fact that they are way too noisy to be outside of a server room).

The HPE switch looks interesting though again it is way larger (12cm deeper) then "normal" switches meaning you can't just drop it into an existing distribution cabinet to upgrade connectivity, also what is the deal with that switch existing at all? I though that after the purchase of Aruba HPE Networking and Aruba were one and the same thing.

I'll definitely check out the innovate site!

//OT - What happened to my username why was it changed to ER94??

Thanks!

------------------------------
Keeper of the Keys

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 10, 2020 05:04 AM
From: marcel koedijk
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Hi ER14,

The Aruba 6000 series Campus switches support 802.1x radius.
The Aruba 8000 series  Datacenter switches don't support 802.1x radius.

As 802.1x radius is generally not used in the datacenter. If you feel there is a use case for using radius on a 8000 series Datacenter switch please report this on the innovation website: https://innovate.arubanetworks.com/

But why do you want 10Gb Base-T endpoint connectivity, personally I have never seen a use case for this. Are you have client applications that requires a 10Gbps connection? In addition to the fact that 10Gbase-T is very expensive for endpoint connectivity, you will also have to take into account a correct over subscription with regard to your uplink interfaces, core infrastructure, firewalls, servers and WLAN uplinks. I think a 10Gbps endpoint connectivity is a very rare design at the moment, hence my question what your use case is.

If you really need it you can also look for a HPE 5710 48XGT 6QS+/2QS28 Switch (JL586A) switch.

------------------------------
Marcel Koedijk | MVP Expert 2020 | ACMP | ACCP | Ekahau ECSE

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 06, 2020 03:20 PM
From: E.S. Rosenberg
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Hey everyone,
This is just me griping in the hope it will be passed on to product managers.

On the Wired/Wireless network side we are currently an all Aruba/HP shop which makes management easier but as we start moving in a direction of wanting to provide users 10G access I find the Aruba product offerings extremely lacking which is a pity for Aruba I guess because it makes me look elsewhere.
And once the system becomes hybrid with a hybrid management solution I doubt we would ever go back to being a mono-culture.

What makes me say the 10G base-T offerings are lack luster?

- No 48 port 10G base T products aimed at access at all (8320 and 8360 don't support 802.1X and are aimed at the datacenter)
- Even on the 6400M though 48p 10G modules exist they are not copper (base T), for copper only 24p is available.
- The smart rate or 1G+ 48p switches tend to be deeper then industry standard making drop in replacement very hard/impossible.

Well that was my rant, I doubt that stuff will change before we make our purchasing decisions for 2021 but maybe it'll help others.
As for me either we'll go with smart rate and be capped at "just" 5G or maybe we will take a leap of faith and order other equipment.

------------------------------
Keeper of the Keys
------------------------------

At the moment we use AirWave, my manager is very interested in Aruba Central.

As for me, I'm more a Linux/*nix as much OSS and do-it-ourself guy as possible but I also understand my limitations, though having a mixed setup of gear for sure forces things more in that direction.

Zabbix for sure doesn't care much what OS a switch runs, neither does ansible as long as there is an interface to them that can be defined.

There is also the factor of the difference in CLI interfaces that is already annoying now when we have a mix of OS-Switch and OS-CX devices and makes bringing in new people harder.

------------------------------
Keeper of the Keys
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 16, 2020 08:48 AM
From: Davide Poletto
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Hi! good point.

My point/problem is that once I'm looking at something like the OfficeConnect 1950 or the 5710 I might as well also start looking at other manufacturers because I'm anyhow losing the advantage of "staying in the ecosystem"

How much and what will you lose exactly in having an access zone served with non ArubaOS-CX based switches?

I'm really curious...I suspect you were referring to all those "surrounding" applications/tools that are valid for an access-to-core ArubaOS-CX based ecosystem and that justify the fact that staying in the ecosystem is advantageous (I guess tools such as Aruba NetEdit or applications like Aruba Airwave and/or Aruba ClearPass, etc.)...but I really want to know what you're referring to because I think this is quite important point in days when the "from edge to core" mantra is hammering (I mean: the "ecosystem" is an important concept if the surrounding applications/tools/devices are really capable of interacting with it completely and without strange and convoluted restrictions...sort of a "one tool to rule them all" for each service type...otherwise its importance could fade quite rapidly if the ecosystem forces us to use different tools to administer/interface with it).

------------------------------
Davide Poletto

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 15, 2020 03:40 PM
From: E.S. Rosenberg
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Thanks for all the interesting suggestions.

My point/problem is that once I'm looking at something like the OfficeConnect 1950 or the 5710 I might as well also start looking at other manufacturers because I'm anyhow losing the advantage of "staying in the ecosystem".

At this point I think we'll settle for offering 5GbaseT to our high speed users (and maybe 10GbaseT to those that are wired directly to the location of the backbone)

------------------------------
Keeper of the Keys

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 10, 2020 08:41 AM
From: Davide Poletto
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Yep, another less-DC-oriented alternative (more for Small Offices I would say) would be the cheaper HPE OfficeConnect 1950 (Comware 7 OS based with some features stripped down...IRF is stil present): specifically there is the SKU JH295A which is capable of 12x10G Base-T ports + 4xSFP+ ports...not so much but enough for serving a small working group (eventually two identical models can be deployed by using IRF to double the port density or to benefit from resilient LACP links aggregations <- not the case here). It supports 802.1X.

In any case the uplink's throughput to Core infrastructure (where Fileservers are) plays an important role and it is something one should carefully consider when design a similar island (as you wrote: oversubscription is de-facto imposed on this type of device...but one can live with it if it's an understood concept and an accepted "restriction").

------------------------------
Davide Poletto

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 10, 2020 06:12 AM
From: marcel koedijk
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Fully agree Davide. The 5710 should be an excellent choice for this case and indeed create a "high-speed-island" close to the fileservers is the best. The depth of cabling cabinet is often an issue and will usually lead to the installation of a deeper cabinet. Not fun, but generally higher switching speeds require more power and produce more heat, noise and require some more space to cool properly.

Original Message:
Sent: 12/10/2020 5:46:00 AM
From: parnassus
Subject: RE: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

I'm sorry to say...but a HPE FlexFabric 5710 Switch Series (aren't we on the same boat?) would fit the bill perfectly IMHO (OK, it's not AOS-CX OS based...it's Comware 7 OS based...which is absolutely not bad at all...and - as example on JL586A SKU - you have your required 40x1/10Gbps Base-T ports + 8x10Gbps Base-T ports + as uplinks 6x40Gbps ports (or 3x40Gbps and 1x100Gbps port or 2x100Gbps ports...all backed with 802.1X support...noisy as usual...but resilient...for DC room).

I mean: you can create an high-speed-island for your desktop workstations using what it fits better (Comware - AOS-CX interoperability is OK).

------------------------------
Davide Poletto

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 10, 2020 05:37 AM
From: E.S. Rosenberg
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Hi Marcel,

In our company we have creative teams that work with high definition video material these files are *large* and allowing their laptops/workstations to be connected over 10G baseT means a serious improvement for their experience when they need to upload/download from our fileservers (they probably would not be opposed to even higher speeds if we could offer them).

The usage of 10G endpoint is growing and will grow more as endpoint costs come down definitively for creative teams as they start working with 4K raw video material or even high definition photo-shoot raw material. In addition to that I believe our researchers would also love to have high speed internal connections for when they are playing with datasets.

We have looked at using an 8320 to provide 10G access to our creative team however the lack of 802.1X was a total deal breaker (in addition to the fact that they are way too noisy to be outside of a server room).

The HPE switch looks interesting though again it is way larger (12cm deeper) then "normal" switches meaning you can't just drop it into an existing distribution cabinet to upgrade connectivity, also what is the deal with that switch existing at all? I though that after the purchase of Aruba HPE Networking and Aruba were one and the same thing.

I'll definitely check out the innovate site!

//OT - What happened to my username why was it changed to ER94??

Thanks!

------------------------------
Keeper of the Keys

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 10, 2020 05:04 AM
From: marcel koedijk
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Hi ER14,

The Aruba 6000 series Campus switches support 802.1x radius.
The Aruba 8000 series  Datacenter switches don't support 802.1x radius.

As 802.1x radius is generally not used in the datacenter. If you feel there is a use case for using radius on a 8000 series Datacenter switch please report this on the innovation website: https://innovate.arubanetworks.com/

But why do you want 10Gb Base-T endpoint connectivity, personally I have never seen a use case for this. Are you have client applications that requires a 10Gbps connection? In addition to the fact that 10Gbase-T is very expensive for endpoint connectivity, you will also have to take into account a correct over subscription with regard to your uplink interfaces, core infrastructure, firewalls, servers and WLAN uplinks. I think a 10Gbps endpoint connectivity is a very rare design at the moment, hence my question what your use case is.

If you really need it you can also look for a HPE 5710 48XGT 6QS+/2QS28 Switch (JL586A) switch.

------------------------------
Marcel Koedijk | MVP Expert 2020 | ACMP | ACCP | Ekahau ECSE

Original Message:
Sent: Dec 06, 2020 03:20 PM
From: E.S. Rosenberg
Subject: [10G BaseT] Lackluster product line-up

Hey everyone,
This is just me griping in the hope it will be passed on to product managers.

On the Wired/Wireless network side we are currently an all Aruba/HP shop which makes management easier but as we start moving in a direction of wanting to provide users 10G access I find the Aruba product offerings extremely lacking which is a pity for Aruba I guess because it makes me look elsewhere.
And once the system becomes hybrid with a hybrid management solution I doubt we would ever go back to being a mono-culture.

What makes me say the 10G base-T offerings are lack luster?

- No 48 port 10G base T products aimed at access at all (8320 and 8360 don't support 802.1X and are aimed at the datacenter)
- Even on the 6400M though 48p 10G modules exist they are not copper (base T), for copper only 24p is available.
- The smart rate or 1G+ 48p switches tend to be deeper then industry standard making drop in replacement very hard/impossible.

Well that was my rant, I doubt that stuff will change before we make our purchasing decisions for 2021 but maybe it'll help others.
As for me either we'll go with smart rate and be capped at "just" 5G or maybe we will take a leap of faith and order other equipment.

------------------------------
Keeper of the Keys
------------------------------