Controllerless Networks

Hi all,

I am quite familiar with Cisco wireless stuff, but I don't like it for home use. I have now two 2701's with standalone firmware, but I find the standalone firmware is very limited and obviously not designed for "production use".

I hear very interesting stories about Aruba access points where one of the access points van take the role of a controller. Limited of course, and I don't expect a coverage map or central break out (light weight, data/control tunneled). I would be very nice if I could manage multiple access points from one place and if the access points would coordinate some things, like fast roaming, maybe even automatic radio power adjustment. I don't need latest-greatest but I do want 802.11ac (WiFi 5) and as much as possible access to all available channels in the 5 GHz band (Cisco seems to be somewhat reluctant there). A bit of MiMo would be nice, but not a real demand, as we only have a few users in the house. Of course there should be simultaneous 2.4 GHz support for legacy.

What kinds of access points should be suitable for me, to start looking for in second hand / refurbished markets?

Do the all need to be the same type or range to be joined? How about firmware versions? Can I get firmware without a support contract?

What is ArubaOS like? I am familiar with Cisco IOS (meh...) and JunOS (yeah!). I don't need nor want a web interface, a cli will do just fine, using ssh.

This for fun/hobby but also for learning purposes, to get a feeling of Aruba products.

Thanks!
Erik.

Hi Erik.

Depend on your budget and expectations. 

You are talking about Aruba Instant. Aruba Instant can form AP cluster of 125 APs. One AP is elected as virtual conductor and all management goes through it.

The smallest ap is AP303. It is cheap 2x2 WiFi-5 AP where you can expect approx 200M throughput  If you need better, you can go with AP305 (WiFi-5) or AP505 (WiFi-6).

I have for my home use 4xAP303 and AP377.

The available budget is usually limiting factor for home use. There is another line of APs and switches that target SMB and home use segment Those are Aruba Instant On. It is the same hardware as Aruba Instant but different Firmware. Instant On APs are cloud managed only.

Best, Gorazd

------------------------------
Gorazd Kikelj
MVP Expert 2023
------------------------------

Hello Gorazd,

Thanks for your information.

It looks like the ap-303 and ap-305 are still produced and therefore quite expensive (even second hand or refurbished). I got my Cisco 2701's (also wifi 5) second hand for around 40 euro's. That may not be possible with Aruba (because their access points don't get out of controller support, I heard, like Cisco does), but I think 450 euro's is quite expensive for an access point.

Is there maybe a series that is no longer "current" but can do wifi 5 and also can do internal controller mode?

Also I am interested in the capabilities of binding vlans to client authentication within an SSID. With my Cisco access points in standalone mode, I am required to create a separate SSID for every vlan, as they don't support this in standalone mode.

Hi Erik.

The latest and greatest is 6xx series. 3xx series is in it's way out. You should try seek in refurbished marked for them. As we currently have a great shortage of APs, prices reflect this. Few years ago you could get AP303 for less than 150€ .

All Aruba APs series 3xx, 5xx and 6xx are universal. You can use it standalone; as Instant with VC; with mobility controller; with Aruba Central.

Instant On  series is more suitable for home. But it only have cloud management (free). 

You can have many vlans per one SSID or one vlan per SSID or you can use RADIUS to define vlan for user or mac dynamically via 802.1x or mac auth. It works with Aruba Instant On, Aruba Instant, Mobility Controllers or standalone.

Best, Gorazd

------------------------------
Gorazd Kikelj
MVP Expert 2023
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Jan 16, 2023 09:16 AM
From: Erik Slagter
Subject: Suitable model second hand for home use

Hello Gorazd,

Thanks for your information.

It looks like the ap-303 and ap-305 are still produced and therefore quite expensive (even second hand or refurbished). I got my Cisco 2701's (also wifi 5) second hand for around 40 euro's. That may not be possible with Aruba (because their access points don't get out of controller support, I heard, like Cisco does), but I think 450 euro's is quite expensive for an access point.

Is there maybe a series that is no longer "current" but can do wifi 5 and also can do internal controller mode?

Also I am interested in the capabilities of binding vlans to client authentication within an SSID. With my Cisco access points in standalone mode, I am required to create a separate SSID for every vlan, as they don't support this in standalone mode.

Hi, I have a couple of 205 (already end of sale and the instant firmware end of support) at home that work excellent.

They support the Virtual Controller and Aruba features but just keep in mind that if you find them and use them there won't be any support for them from aruba.

Regards
Original Message:
Sent: Jan 16, 2023 09:16 AM
From: Erik Slagter
Subject: Suitable model second hand for home use

Hello Gorazd,

Thanks for your information.

It looks like the ap-303 and ap-305 are still produced and therefore quite expensive (even second hand or refurbished). I got my Cisco 2701's (also wifi 5) second hand for around 40 euro's. That may not be possible with Aruba (because their access points don't get out of controller support, I heard, like Cisco does), but I think 450 euro's is quite expensive for an access point.

Is there maybe a series that is no longer "current" but can do wifi 5 and also can do internal controller mode?

Also I am interested in the capabilities of binding vlans to client authentication within an SSID. With my Cisco access points in standalone mode, I am required to create a separate SSID for every vlan, as they don't support this in standalone mode.

Hello Ulises, this looks like exactly what I am looking for!

These access point seem to be 802.11ac-wave-1 which is sufficient for me. I can get some of them for 32 euro's second hand, nice price :-)

So it looks like these indeed can work "instant controller" which is what I am looking for.

Will they also allow for multiple vlans on a single SSID depending on the authentication? That would be great. And I guess they will also coordinate channel allocation and power between the member ap's and facilitate fast/seamless roaming?

Do you know if they can also work with other types (from the same series, of course), in the case I can't get my hands on more of exactly the same type?

If you can confirm, I will order some of them!

Thanks!

One quick additional question, I see there are iAP-205 and AP-205 being sold. I assume the first one is the "instant" one and the other one the controller based one. What if an AP-205 is sold, can I just buy it and flash another firmware to make it into an iAP-205? Is this firmware publicly accessible?

Yes, sorry i didn't mention it before.

In that series of APs they are labeled as AP o IAP.
AP is used only with a controller and IAP can be used with or without a controller.

As for the exact model, it would be better to get your hands on at least am IAP-215(i have found good deals) since it's last supported firmware version is 8.6 for Instant (controllerless) and the 205 only supports up to 6.5.

End of maintenance for instant firmware:
6.5  Nov-2023
8.6 Aug 2024

Both series will reached their end of support for the hardware in feb-2023.

I hope this helps
Original Message:
Sent: Jan 20, 2023 03:48 AM
From: Erik Slagter
Subject: Suitable model second hand for home use

One quick additional question, I see there are iAP-205 and AP-205 being sold. I assume the first one is the "instant" one and the other one the controller based one. What if an AP-205 is sold, can I just buy it and flash another firmware to make it into an iAP-205? Is this firmware publicly accessible?

Hi,

I am comfortable with the 205. They're easily to come by (even refurbished from a store) and the performance is good enough for me (comparable to the Cisco 2701's I now have). For the few clients here at home I think it's better to have one or two additional access points to having extreme throughput or max MIMO.

I will watch out for having an "iap" and not "ap" good to know!

I already downloaded to firmware, I wanted to make sure they're available outside a support contract. The last version is from august 2022, so quite recent, not bad.

Is there a compelling reason for wanting to have InstantOS version 8? I will be using very basic functionality, i.e. no firewalling, inspection etc. But I do need to have multiple vlans on one SSID.
Original Message:
Sent: Jan 20, 2023 08:48 AM
From: ulises.cazares
Subject: Suitable model second hand for home use

Yes, sorry i didn't mention it before.

In that series of APs they are labeled as AP o IAP.
AP is used only with a controller and IAP can be used with or without a controller.

As for the exact model, it would be better to get your hands on at least am IAP-215(i have found good deals) since it's last supported firmware version is 8.6 for Instant (controllerless) and the 205 only supports up to 6.5.

End of maintenance for instant firmware:
6.5  Nov-2023
8.6 Aug 2024

Both series will reached their end of support for the hardware in feb-2023.

I hope this helps

Original Message:
Sent: Jan 20, 2023 03:48 AM
From: Erik Slagter
Subject: Suitable model second hand for home use

One quick additional question, I see there are iAP-205 and AP-205 being sold. I assume the first one is the "instant" one and the other one the controller based one. What if an AP-205 is sold, can I just buy it and flash another firmware to make it into an iAP-205? Is this firmware publicly accessible?

Well, both versions will allow you to do that with a RADIUS server and tagging the vlans in the switch port.  Personally, I will go with the 8 version because is newer and you will get updates up to 2024 (in 8.6). 


I hope this helps

Original Message:
Sent: Jan 20, 2023 08:56 AM
From: Erik Slagter
Subject: Suitable model second hand for home use

Hi,

I am comfortable with the 205. They're easily to come by (even refurbished from a store) and the performance is good enough for me (comparable to the Cisco 2701's I now have). For the few clients here at home I think it's better to have one or two additional access points to having extreme throughput or max MIMO.

I will watch out for having an "iap" and not "ap" good to know!

I already downloaded to firmware, I wanted to make sure they're available outside a support contract. The last version is from august 2022, so quite recent, not bad.

Is there a compelling reason for wanting to have InstantOS version 8? I will be using very basic functionality, i.e. no firewalling, inspection etc. But I do need to have multiple vlans on one SSID.

Original Message:
Sent: Jan 20, 2023 08:48 AM
From: ulises.cazares
Subject: Suitable model second hand for home use

Yes, sorry i didn't mention it before.

In that series of APs they are labeled as AP o IAP.
AP is used only with a controller and IAP can be used with or without a controller.

As for the exact model, it would be better to get your hands on at least am IAP-215(i have found good deals) since it's last supported firmware version is 8.6 for Instant (controllerless) and the 205 only supports up to 6.5.

End of maintenance for instant firmware:
6.5  Nov-2023
8.6 Aug 2024

Both series will reached their end of support for the hardware in feb-2023.

I hope this helps

Original Message:
Sent: Jan 20, 2023 03:48 AM
From: Erik Slagter
Subject: Suitable model second hand for home use

One quick additional question, I see there are iAP-205 and AP-205 being sold. I assume the first one is the "instant" one and the other one the controller based one. What if an AP-205 is sold, can I just buy it and flash another firmware to make it into an iAP-205? Is this firmware publicly accessible?

When you purchase IAP models, make sure that the country code matches where you live. For the United States you would need the -US model, for most other countries you would need the -RW. You cannot mix the -US and -RW models for legal/regulatory reasons.

------------------------------
Herman Robers
------------------------
If you have urgent issues, always contact your Aruba partner, distributor, or Aruba TAC Support. Check https://www.arubanetworks.com/support-services/contact-support/ for how to contact Aruba TAC. Any opinions expressed here are solely my own and not necessarily that of Hewlett Packard Enterprise or Aruba Networks.

In case your problem is solved, please invest the time to post a follow-up with the information on how you solved it. Others can benefit from that.
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Jan 20, 2023 08:56 AM
From: Erik Slagter
Subject: Suitable model second hand for home use

Hi,

I am comfortable with the 205. They're easily to come by (even refurbished from a store) and the performance is good enough for me (comparable to the Cisco 2701's I now have). For the few clients here at home I think it's better to have one or two additional access points to having extreme throughput or max MIMO.

I will watch out for having an "iap" and not "ap" good to know!

I already downloaded to firmware, I wanted to make sure they're available outside a support contract. The last version is from august 2022, so quite recent, not bad.

Is there a compelling reason for wanting to have InstantOS version 8? I will be using very basic functionality, i.e. no firewalling, inspection etc. But I do need to have multiple vlans on one SSID.

Original Message:
Sent: Jan 20, 2023 08:48 AM
From: ulises.cazares
Subject: Suitable model second hand for home use

Yes, sorry i didn't mention it before.

In that series of APs they are labeled as AP o IAP.
AP is used only with a controller and IAP can be used with or without a controller.

As for the exact model, it would be better to get your hands on at least am IAP-215(i have found good deals) since it's last supported firmware version is 8.6 for Instant (controllerless) and the 205 only supports up to 6.5.

End of maintenance for instant firmware:
6.5  Nov-2023
8.6 Aug 2024

Both series will reached their end of support for the hardware in feb-2023.

I hope this helps

Original Message:
Sent: Jan 20, 2023 03:48 AM
From: Erik Slagter
Subject: Suitable model second hand for home use

One quick additional question, I see there are iAP-205 and AP-205 being sold. I assume the first one is the "instant" one and the other one the controller based one. What if an AP-205 is sold, can I just buy it and flash another firmware to make it into an iAP-205? Is this firmware publicly accessible?

Thx. I already was wondering what "rw" as postfix meant, I googled for it and it appears to be "Rest of World", as opposed to the US, Japan and Israel versions. Luckily the ones I bought are all "rw" but I will keep an eye when buying more.

BTW it's not in "production" yet, but for the moment, after I found out how to have FreeRadius talk correctly to the Virtual Controller, I am still very content with the IAP-205 access points. At least they just use the 5 GHz high channel nummers without complaining. The Cisco's I am now using will never stay there, they always detect some radar (which is really not there) and escape to some channel that's already swamped.
Original Message:
Sent: Jan 24, 2023 05:12 AM
From: Herman Robers
Subject: Suitable model second hand for home use

When you purchase IAP models, make sure that the country code matches where you live. For the United States you would need the -US model, for most other countries you would need the -RW. You cannot mix the -US and -RW models for legal/regulatory reasons.

------------------------------
Herman Robers
------------------------
If you have urgent issues, always contact your Aruba partner, distributor, or Aruba TAC Support. Check https://www.arubanetworks.com/support-services/contact-support/ for how to contact Aruba TAC. Any opinions expressed here are solely my own and not necessarily that of Hewlett Packard Enterprise or Aruba Networks.

In case your problem is solved, please invest the time to post a follow-up with the information on how you solved it. Others can benefit from that.
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: Jan 20, 2023 08:56 AM
From: Erik Slagter
Subject: Suitable model second hand for home use

Hi,

I am comfortable with the 205. They're easily to come by (even refurbished from a store) and the performance is good enough for me (comparable to the Cisco 2701's I now have). For the few clients here at home I think it's better to have one or two additional access points to having extreme throughput or max MIMO.

I will watch out for having an "iap" and not "ap" good to know!

I already downloaded to firmware, I wanted to make sure they're available outside a support contract. The last version is from august 2022, so quite recent, not bad.

Is there a compelling reason for wanting to have InstantOS version 8? I will be using very basic functionality, i.e. no firewalling, inspection etc. But I do need to have multiple vlans on one SSID.

Original Message:
Sent: Jan 20, 2023 08:48 AM
From: ulises.cazares
Subject: Suitable model second hand for home use

Yes, sorry i didn't mention it before.

In that series of APs they are labeled as AP o IAP.
AP is used only with a controller and IAP can be used with or without a controller.

As for the exact model, it would be better to get your hands on at least am IAP-215(i have found good deals) since it's last supported firmware version is 8.6 for Instant (controllerless) and the 205 only supports up to 6.5.

End of maintenance for instant firmware:
6.5  Nov-2023
8.6 Aug 2024

Both series will reached their end of support for the hardware in feb-2023.

I hope this helps

Original Message:
Sent: Jan 20, 2023 03:48 AM
From: Erik Slagter
Subject: Suitable model second hand for home use

One quick additional question, I see there are iAP-205 and AP-205 being sold. I assume the first one is the "instant" one and the other one the controller based one. What if an AP-205 is sold, can I just buy it and flash another firmware to make it into an iAP-205? Is this firmware publicly accessible?